Some More Info about the Kraatz Family Photos

I just wanted to take a minute to post another e-mail I received from Ray Kraatz about the photos that we were able to identify. Here’s what he wrote me:

“Hello Stephanie;
Thank you for saving these pictures, that copy of the family photo is the same one that I have, and the individual picture of Agnes I also have a copy of. The picture of Laura I had not seen before, and yes she is the daughter of William and Agnes. As far as the boy in the picture, as you compare the two boys in your pictures could very well be Carl instead of Louis. Louis was the name on the back of the picture but was written well after the fact in an attempt to identify people in the picture.
Did any of your pictures have any indication of when these were taken? My estimate is based on Walter being in the picture as he died in July of 1910.
Did you have an individual picture of Viola Fleschner from that same group, or information of the Fleschners, she would be Arthur's second wife, they were married in 1912.
I have a picture of William and Agnes in front of the tailor shop that I am including as well as pictures of William, Arthur and Walter.
Thank you again
Ray”

And these are the newest pictures that he sent:

William and Agnes Schaefer Kraatz; & William Kraatz:

Arthur Kraatz; Walter Kraatz:

(William and Agnes' sons)

So, the fact that his copy of that original Kraatz family photo said that Anna Spohr’s son in the picture was named Louis made me doubt that it was actually Carl, Louis’ brother – even though all the ‘clues’ from my photos from that day pointed in that direction. But now knowing that the names on the back of Ray’s photo were not written there originally when the photo was taken, I’m feeling much more confident that it is in fact Carl Spohr (my great grandfather) in the photo with his mother Anna and the other Kraatz family relatives.

And although none of my photographs had any writing on the back of them to indicate what year they were taken, the individual shots of the women are real photo postcards. When they made those postcards, there was usually a symbol printed in the top right corner where you would place the stamp, and those symbols changed over the years. So by looking online for information about dating real photo postcards by their stampbox markings, you can find lots of information describing each marking and what range of years that marking was used in. So we can easily identify the stampbox marking on this photo as “AZO, 4 triangles pointed up,” which was used between 1904 and 1918. Although that doesn’t narrow it down to a specific year, at least we know we are on the right track with Ray’s estimate of 1909 or 1910. I’m afraid that may be as close as we’re going to be able to get to an actual date for these photos, though, (unless we happen to be lucky enough to find another relative with copies of the same photos with writing on the back – who knows, it could happen).

Identifying Unidentified Family Photos!

I was excited to get this photo of the Kraatz family and Anna and Carl Spohr from Ray Kraatz.

Just now while I was gathering together those photos to post along with the Kraatz family photo, for some reason I decided to open up a folder of old photos on my computer. When I was visiting my grandparents’ house during my college years, I scanned numerous old photos, including many that my grandparents were unable to identify. Since my great grandpa, Carl Spohr Sr., was a photographer, he took lots of photographs of family members, but also of friends and people in the town, so many of these unidentified photos may be of people who are not even related to us. I didn’t have much hope of ever identifying any of the people in the photos, but I wanted to keep copies, just in case.

So, when I was glancing through this folder of over 200 unidentified photos, I was very excited to come across this one:

It is clearly Agnes Laura Schaefer Kraatz, from the Kraatz photo that Ray sent. In fact, I believe that the two photographs were taken at the same time, since she is even wearing the same clothes. I had always wondered who the woman in this photo was, because of the unique border around the picture that 'matches' the one of Anna Marie Ott Spohr and her young son, Carl (my great grandpa).

So when I came to the next photo in the folder, I was excited to again be able to identify the woman in this third ‘matching’ photo as Laura Kraatz (the daughter of Agnes Laura Schaefer and William Kraatz) from Ray’s photograph. All of these women are wearing the same clothes as in the group shot, so I think it’s reasonable to say that the whole set of photos was taken at the same time.

I figured that I was lucky to have identified these two photos (since I never even imagined I would be able to identify any of them), and that it wasn’t likely I’d be able to identify any of the others, but I decided to look through all of the unidentified photos in the folder, and I came across one last one. This is the exact same shot at the one Ray sent me, except it is zoomed out to show their St. Louis, Missouri home.

This made me take a closer look at the photo that I had of Anna and young Carl, and by looking at the group shot of the Kraatz family, I could tell that the boy in that picture (who Ray had identified as Carl’s brother, Louis), is wearing the same outfit as Carl is. The boy in the group shot is wearing a hat, and the picture of Carl and Anna has no hat. By comparing my photo of Anna and Carl to my photo of Carl and his brother Louis, it looks to me that it is Carl in the picture of Anna and Carl. Carl and Louis were close in age and looked pretty similar – I believe that my photo of Anna and Carl, and the Kraatz family group photograph show the same boy, my great grandfather Carl John Spohr.

But isn’t this so cool? Wow!

Kraatz and Spohr Photograph

I wanted to post a photo that was sent to me by Raymond Kraatz, a descendant of the Schaefer family (Ray’s great grandmother was Agnes Laura Schaefer Kraatz, the sister of William Albert Schaefer who was Amalie Spohr’s husband). This photo shows not only Kraatz family members, but also my 2nd great grandmother, Anna Marie Ott Spohr, and her son, Carl John Spohr. I think it’s cool to find ‘new’ family photos like this, and because I have quite a few photographs of Anna and her family, I was able to help confirm that the Anna and Carl in the photo were in fact Anna and Carl Spohr.

Here is what Ray wrote when he sent me this photo:
“Here is the picture I was telling you about, it was taken in front of their home at 7161 Wellington Ct. in St Louis, MO. in late 1909 or early 1910, I think Anna is Amalie's sister-in-law and her son Louis. The people from left to right are
Agnes Kraatz seated, Laura Kraatz, William Kraatz, Anna Spohr seated and Viola Fleschner standing, in front are Walter Kraatz, Louis Spohr and Arthur Kraatz.”

Here are a few photos of Anna Marie Ott Spohr in her younger years. (In the wedding photo, Anna is the one sitting and her husband, Ludwig is the one standing on the right, and I don't know who the other two people in the photo are).

And this photo is of Louis and Carl Spohr – Anna and Ludwig’s two surviving sons. (Carl was my great grandfather). Although Ray’s Kraatz family photo identified the boy as ‘Louis,’ I believe that it was really Carl in the picture, because of another set of photos that I found that were taken on the same day as the Kraatz family photo from Ray (I told Ray this, and he said that the names written on his photo were written by a family member later on in an attempt to identify the individuals, not at the time that the photo was taken).

This photo of Anna Marie Ott Spohr and her son, Carl Spohr (sr.), is the only other photo I have of my great grandpa Carl when he was a young child:

My Spohr and Schaefer Ancestors

I wrote this post a few days ago, and have since been trying to find the time to gather together the copies of documents and pictures that I have:

I was so excited last week to ‘meet’ the wife of my 4th cousin through the website, http://www.ancestry.com/. We’ve e-mailed and shared some information since then, and it turns out that she and her husband are members of our church. I didn’t know of any other relatives on my mom’s side of the family (other than some of her immediate family members) who were members of our church, so that’s kind of cool. Anyways, since then I have tried to connect with some other distant relatives on that side of the family, and I have been fortunate to hear back from two others also. This is great, since I haven’t met very many relatives on my mom’s side of the family at all, and the more relatives I get to know, the more we can share information to learn more about our ancestors.

I’ve been very busy this week with preparing a lesson and a schedule for the entire school year for the ‘Activity Days’ girl’s class that I am now the teacher for at church, that I haven’t really been able to find an extra minute to do any genealogy the last few days. But I’ve been meaning to try and find the time to send all of the copies of old family letters, photos, documents, and my research findings about the families that these distant relatives and I both descend from to each of them. But the idea just popped into my head that I could post this family information on our blog instead. That way I don’t have to worry about the possibility of problems with the e-mails getting sent and having to re-send them (which always seems to be an issue when I’m trying to send a large number of files as attachments to several different e-mails). Plus, if I post the info to our blog, it will stay on the internet, so there will always be the possibility that other descendant(s) of these same ancestors could find this information and we could share even more about our family history.

I guess the easiest thing for me to do would be to copy the e-mail that I sent to my cousin’s wife that I met last week (so I don’t have to spend time re-typing the same information again). That will explain how I’m related to our common ancestors, my 3rd great grandparents, Carl Spohr and Ludmilla Breinl. It will also show what information I currently have about our Schaefer relatives – two of Carl Spohr’s and Ludmilla Breinl’s children were Ludwig Spohr and Amalie Spohr. Ludwig Spohr was my great, great grandfather. And his sister, Amalie Spohr, married William Schaefer. This cousin that I have made contact with is a descendant of Amalie Spohr Schaefer.

So, this is the information I have on the Schaefer family (and some of the info I have on the Spohr family):

---------------------------------------------------

Elise,

First of all I’ll tell you a little about myself and explain exactly how I’m related to William and Amalie. My name is Stephanie Lynn Chidester Bradshaw. My husband, Michael Bradshaw, and I were married in 2002 and we have 5 very active little boys who keep us very busy: Kolby, Elijah, Camden, Isaac, and Courtland. I grew up in San Diego (where my parents and my youngest brother still live), and since meeting my husband in college, we have moved around quite a bit while he was in medical school in Milwaukee, a 1-year internship in Utah, and now a residency outside of Rochester, New York. My parents are Steven John Chidester and Amy Lynn Spohr, and my younger siblings are Jennifer, Michelle, Matthew, and Aaron.

My mom, Amy Lynn Spohr, is the daughter of Carl John Spohr Jr. and Beverly Frances Monk. My grandpa, Carl John Spohr Jr., was the only child of Carl John Spohr and Nettie Dorothy Graham. My great grandfather, Carl John Spohr, was the son of Ludwig Spohr (Louis) and Anna Marie Ott. And Ludwig (Amalie Spohr’s brother) was the son of Carl Spohr and Ludmilla Breinl.

I’d love to hear a little about you and your family too, and how your husband is related to the Schaefer/Spohr family.

And this is what I know about Amalie and Ludwig Spohr and their family: Amalie’s and Ludwig’s parents were Carl Spohr and Ludmilla Breinl. Carl was born about 1851 in Salesel, Aussig an der Elbe, Böhmen, Austrian Empire (now Ústí nad Labam, Čechy, Czech Republic).

[Maybe you already know this, but if not, here’s what I’ve found out about where they came from: Although the family spoke German and wrote in the old German gothic alphabet (I’ve seen some old family letters and documents from before they came to America) and they were ‘German,’ when they lived in Europe they lived in the Austrian Empire – so some of the records show that they were German and some show that they were Austrian. But the towns where the family was from are now in the Czech Republic, so lots of the place names have since been changed from the German to Czech names. My parents went on a trip to the Czech Republic and were able to visit some of the places where the family was from and find some birth records there for Ludwig, Amalie, and their siblings in one of the Czech archives.]

Anyways, back to the family: Carl’s wife, Ludmilla Breinl, was born about 1851 in Graslitz, Böhmen, Austrian Empire (now Kraslice, Čechy, Czech Republic). Ludmilla’s parents were Friedrich Breinl and Amalia Dotzauer (probably who Amalie was named after). Friedrich Breinl was born in Graslitz (and I’ve got several different possible birth years listed for him). He was a ‘master beer brewer’ in Graslitz. Amalia Dotzauer was born about 1831 also in Graslitz. I don’t know anything about either Friedrich’s or Amalia’s parents. I have two other children, besides Ludmilla, listed for Friedrich and Amalia: Anna Breinl christened 4 Aug 1846 in Graslitz; and Adolph Thomas Breinl christened 25 Jan 1849 in Graslitz and died 11 Oct 1904 in Bleistadt, Falkenau, Bohemia, Austria.

Carl Spohr’s parents were Franz Spohr and Johanna Panowitz. Franz Spohr was born about 1806, also in Salesel. According Ludwig Spohr’s birth certificate, Franz also lived in Graslitz and worked there as a Cantor (a choir master). Franz Spohr and Johanna Panowitz were married around 1831. Johanna was born about 1810 in Rasitz, , Austrian Empire. I don’t have any info about either Franz’ or Johanna’s parents.

As far as I know, Ludmilla Breinl and Carl Spohr never came to America with their children. And I don’t know if Amelia and Ludwig came to America at the same time or if they came separately. From different records (mostly censuses) I have found the following years for when Amalia came to America: 1882/1883/1884/1885, and all the records that I’ve found for when Ludwig came to the U.S. say that he came in either 1882 or 1886.

Ludwig Spohr married Anna Marie Ott on 31 Aug 1898 in Cincinatti. After they were married they had stillborn twin sons before having their first son who lived, Louis Christopher Spohr, born 23 Oct 1899 in either Madison, Illinois or St. Louis, Missouri. And their only other child was my great grandfather, Carl John Spohr, who was born on 21 Sep 1903 in St. Louis. The family lived in Venice, Illinois and later in Madison, Illinois. Ludwig owned and operated 2 different confectionery stores in both of these towns, and they lived in an apartment above the store in Madison. On 21 Dec 1912 Ludwig was reaching for something up on a high shelf in the store and he fell and hit his head and died, and he was then buried in Granite City, Illinois. His wife, Anna Marie Ott, raised the two boys and later died in Jan 1961 in Edwardsville, Illinois and was buried with her husband in Granite City.

I don’t have a lot of information about Amalie Spohr and her husband William, so I’m sure you can fill in a lot here. I have found lots of name variations on different records for Amalie, including: Amalie Schäfer; Amalia Schaeffer; Amelia Schaffer; Amelia Schaefer; Molly Schaefer; Mollie Schaffer. And if I remember correctly, when my parents found those birth records in the Czech Republic for Ludwig, Amalie, and their siblings, it gave a different name for her and Amalie was actually her middle name on her birth record. I don’t have those Czech records added to my genealogy file yet, but don’t let me forget to find them and send them to you too.

Here’s what I know about her and her family: Amalie Spohr was born Mar 1867 (I don’t have a date in March) in Eger, Böhmen, Austrian Empire (now Cheb, Čechy, Czech Republic). I don’t have a death or burial date or location for her. She became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 1890. I found her on the US Census living in Venice, Madison, Illinois in 1900, 1910, and 1920; and then in Nameoki, Madison, Illinois in 1930. The only marriage info that I have for Amalie and William is that they were married in either 1896 or 1897 in the U.S. – do you have any more info than this?

I believe that Amalie Spohr was William Schaefer’s 2nd wife (do you know anything about his first wife? All I have is that she was born in Missouri or Germany and that she married William in 1888 – no name, birth date, death date, etc.) The only reason I know that William had another spouse was from the census records. In the 1900 census, it tells that it was William’s 2nd marriage, and that he had been married to his present spouse (Amalie) for 13 years. It said that it was Amalie’s 1st marriage, and that she had had 5 children and that 4 of those children were living at that time. This census also listed the following children in the household: George, Annie, Agnes, Lewis, Liddie. It said that George’s mother was born in Missouri, and for the rest of the children it said that their mother was born in Austria.
So, with that information, I looked back at their family on the 1900 Census (they happened to be living next door to Amalie’s brother, Ludwig, and his family). This census said that William and Amalie had been married for 4 years. But this census said that Amalie was the mother of 6 living children (they must have just assumed that all of the children were hers – would be kind of hard to have had 6 kids in 4 years of marriage). The census lists the following children: Wm, Minnie, George, Annie, Agnes, and Louis. And for Wm, Minnie, and George it shows that their mother was born in Germany, but for Annie, Agnes, and Louis it says that their mother was born in Austria. So, if you have any more info about William’s first wife or her family, I’d love to learn more about them. And I’ve always found the older kids listing Amalie as their mother in the few other records that I do have about them – so I guess they all considered her their mother since she raised them all since they were young.

I don’t know anything about William Schaefer’s parents or siblings, so if you have any info about them I’d love to know. Actually, all I know about William was that he was born Feb 1862 in Germany (again, no specific birth date or place). I have several different spellings for his last name: Schäfer, Schaeffer, Schaffer, and Schaefer. He came to the U.S. in 1883 or 1884 and was also naturalized in 1890. On the 1900 census it listed his occupation as a Foreman at a Steel Works company, and on the 1910 census it lists him as a Teamster, and then in 1920 as a Merchant for a Coal Company. In 1930 it lists that he didn’t have an occupation – don’t know if that means he was retired or unemployed.

And I have very little information for their children – just some names, approximate birth dates, and the names of a few spouses (mostly from census records). If you have more info about these children, their spouses, and their children, I’d love to learn whatever you know. The children of William Schaefer and his first wife were

1. William Schaefer born Jul 1889 in Missouri (lived in Venice, Illinois in 1900). I don’t have a spouse or children for him.

2. Nonnie Schaefer born Sep 1890 in Missouri (lived in Venice in 1900, and in Tavares, Florida in 1974). Nonnie married K. C. Ross – any idea what his name was, or anything else about him? And I don’t have any children for them. My mom has a copy of a letter that Nonnie sent to my great grandfather, Carl John Spohr, about Spohr family genealogy in 1974 – that’s the last contact our family had with any Schaefer relatives before I got your e-mail yesterday. (Interestingly, in the letter Nonnie spoke of her Spohr ancestors – not mentioning anything about Amalie Spohr actually being her step mother). I think I may have copies of some old family photos with Nonnie in them – I remember my Grandpa Carl mentioning Nonnie to me when I asked about family history when I was a teenager. I’ll have to check and see, and I can send copies.

3. George Schaefer born Apr 1893 in Illinois (lived in Venice from 1900 to 1930 (at least). He worked as a Teamster, a Cheaffeur for a Steel Mill, and a Garage Man over those years.) George was married in 1916 or 1917 to Bertha Keiderling. Bertha was born in 1899 in Illinois (and lived in Venice from 1920 to 1930, at least). (Bertha’s mother, Elizabeth, who was born in 1870 in Illinois lived with them in Venice in 1920 and 1930). George and Bertha had three children that I know of: Dorothy born May 1919, Albert born in 1922, and George born 1924.

And the children of William and Amalie were:

4. Annie Schaefer born Aug 1897 in Illinois. (I’ve found her listed as Annie and as Anna). (lived in Venice from 1900 to 1920 where she worked as a Stenographer for an Asphalt Company, and she lived in Nameoki, Illinois in 1930). She was married in 1924 to Kenneth Ross [any relationship to Nonnie’s husband, K.C. Ross???] Kenneth was born in 1894 or 1897 in Minnesota and he worked as a Clerk at a Car Shop in Venice in 1920 and then as a Foreman in Nameoki in 1930. His father was born in Canada, and his mother was either born in Canada or Wisconsin, although I don’t know either of their names. I don’t have any children listed for Annie and Kenneth. (I do also remember my grandpa Carl also mentioning a “Kenny” in one of the old photos that I found in his house, and I remember him specifically telling me that this Kenny was a Schaefer relative, not his mother’s brother who was also named Ken. I don’t know if this was Kenneth Ross or not). Annie may have also been in the photos with Nonnie – I’ll have to go back and see if I can find copies of them on my computer.

5. Agnes Schaefer born May 1900 in Illinois. (lived in Venice from 1900 to 1920, and in Nameoki in 1930 – worked as a Stenographer for an Envelope Company in 1920). Agnes and her brother, Louis, were twins. In 1922 Agnes married Ray Becks who was born in 1900 in Illinois (he worked as a Salesman for an Oil Refinery in Nameoki in 1930). Ray’s parents were born in Illinois, but I don’t have any other info about them. I don’t know of any children for Agnes and Ray.

6. Louis Schaefer born May 1900 (Agnes’ twin). (I wonder if Louis was named after Amalie’s brother, Ludwig, who went by Louis for the rest of his life after coming to America?) I’ve found Louis listed as Louis, Lewis, and Louie. (Lived in Venice from 1900 to 1920 where he worked as a Machinist for a Packing House in 1920). I don’t have a spouse or children for Louis.

7. (child) Schaefer, born between 1896 and 1910, and died before 1910 – I only know about this child because the 1910 census showed that Amalie had had one child who had died before that census was taken.

8. And Lydia Schaefer, born 1905 in Illinois. (lived in Venice from 1910 to 1920, and in Madison, Illinois in 1930). She was married in 1925 or 1926 to Oliver Scott who was born in 1904 in Michigan. (He worked as a Retail Shoe Salesman in Madison, Illinois in 1930). Oliver’s father was born in Ohio and his mother was born in Michigan. Lydia and Oliver had one son that I know of, Robert Oliver Scott, born in Oct 1928 in Illinois. (Robert lived in Madison in 1930).

(If you have anything to add, or any corrections to what I have, I’d be very interested). I’m excited to learn what you know about the family too.

I’m afraid this turned out to be a very long e-mail, oh well. I’ll try to gather up some of the documents, records, and some old photos to share.

Thanks so much,
Stephanie

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I was excited to hear back from Elise (my 4th cousin’s wife) and she was able to share some more information with me about some of the descendants of William and Amalie Spohr Schaefer. The other two distant relatives that I contacted were also related to the Schaefer and Spohr families. One is the great grandson of Agnes Schaefer, and the other is the wife of my 3rd cousin, who is a descendant of Ludwig Spohr’s and Anna Marie Ott’s son, Louis Spohr.
Well, I guess the next step is start posting the photos, letters, documents, etc. that I have about the Schaefers and Spohrs. I guess what I’ll do is start with what I have on the Schaefer family and then try to post some more about the Spohrs. Since the Spohr family is my direct line, I have more about the Spohrs than the Schaefers, but I’ll post what I do have on them. This will be nice, once I get it all done, to have all of it online in one spot.